Just noting some counterlogic I've attempted in debate(s) with pro-Tories, (for myself more than anyone else's benefit). It's difficult for either side when there is such a basic ideological divide, and when, both left and right, you have been exposed to pro-left or pro-right media and pretty much nothing else.
“Say goodbye to Gilbraltar, the Falklands,
Northern Ireland and Scotland.”
- Couldn’t find this in the
manifesto. At this point the Scots could go whether Labour or the Tories are
in, and considering that many of SNP’s core beliefs mirror the Labour
manifesto, I would say the chance of retaining the UK as it is, is higher with
Labour being in. The Scots are pissed off about austerity measures being
imposed on them from Westminster – THIS will be the main reason they choose to
leave, given the chance again, should they do so.
“The top wealthy moving their money out of
the U.K. Small Buisnesses collapsing when their tax rises. Corporations
moving their head offices away from London to Poland due to being hit with
huge tax rises, which Germany would love as they want to end Londons supremasy
on this”
- The idea that corporations or the
mega-rich will just leave the country if taxes are raised is a constant
fearmongering tactic in the hard-right propaganda rags against
progressive taxation. The rate of corporation tax is not the sole determining
factor in where a corporation locates itself, or they’d all be in the Bahamas
at 0%. Oh wait, that’s where the tax dodgers are.
- Anyone who thinks it would be easy and
costless for a major corporation like Rolls Royce or Unilever to just shut down
production in the UK and shift it overseas isn’t seeing the bigger picture.
- Constantly cutting corporation tax rates
will only result in a "race to the bottom" scenario.
- Corporations have a responsibility to
contribute towards stuff like the infrastructure that they and their customers
use, the existence of the legal system and the emergency services, the in-work
benefits that are paid to their employees, and the education of their
workforce.
- Corporations aren’t going to abandon
Britain just because Labour puts the Corporation Tax rate up to 26% (still the
lowest in the G7).
- Anyone who thinks a billionaire who is so
self-serving that they would just up sticks and leave the country over a slight
change in tax rate is not already stashing their cash in tax havens (and
therefore unaffected by such a change) is narrow minded
“Russia, North Korea seeing us as a great
target due to our nuclear arms not being renewed. Such a stupid thing to be
doing in such an unstable world. Security under this idiot will change
Regardless of what he says.”
The Labour party is a democracy – the
Trident deterrent will be renewed. North Korea are not the aggressors now – they were decimated in the 50s and are now
more concerned about protecting themselves rather than being aggressive. Nuclear
war is not the threat that we face, it’s guerrilla tactics on the street. We
need more police officers. We need to look at why it’s unstable and perhaps not
be the ones destabilising it.
“People will end up having to sell their
family homes due to the garden tax that this idiot thinks he is going to bring
in.”
Labour have explicitly stated that there is
not going to be a garden tax. There’ll be a CT review to make it fairer (I’d
like more details too). But they have said they’ll not be introducing a
separate Land Value Tax on residential property. Maybe if you have a commercial
business there’ll be some impact.
“Borrow billions from the world bank To
fund his wild array of manifesto promises which will yet again cause us to go
back into the red for yet another Tory government in four years time to come
along and cut services in order to repair the damage.”
“Also even under Labour the richer get
richer and the poorer get poorer. As sad as it is this is the way of the world
and very country is the same. It's just we have been more generous in giving
tax payers money to people. It is also fact that giving benedits to,people
does not help the children out of poverty as in many of our large inner cities
where these problems are rife the many single parent families take the money
for themselves and spend it on drink and drugs. The answer is to lower benefits
and make people get a part time job to make up the short fall. By doing this
people start to have a sense of pride in themselves and attitudes would change.”
True: the rich tend to hold on to their
riches no matter the government – does that show that under Labour they can
therefore afford to pay a bit more tax? Or that they are unaffected by tax rate
changes as they hold their money in offshore accounts? Sure with lower tax
under Tory they’d get a bit more money for investment, but you then have to
trust that they invest and not simply take a larger slice of the pie for their
CEOs. I think I’d rather bank it with the current Labour to invest in public
services. I agree in some regards with the benefits and children in poverty,
but we differ ideologically. I don’t let those who take advantage of the system
cloud my vision for a greater overall society where the public services are all
funded as much as they need to be. And I would do whatever I could to ensure
the children don’t suffer, be it free school meals, no rich/poor divide with
universities, greater investment in youth projects, and so on.
